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120892-countering-burnout-what-can-wildstar-do-to-help-keep-players-playing
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Yattish would not appreciate you misspelling the name of his people! Anyway, being on topic, there really isn't much you can do for "burnout" and that definition in itself can somewhat vary. for certain individuals. However improving of content going forward is something that is helpful to discuss either in part as a whole. For certain individuals they play some MMO's for specific goas because of how the genre handles it generally. One of which being PvP for some as example, but that's not so much a case of burning out(in some cases) and some people. Me personally, I'm "burned out" on the dailies and the weekly, and I'm not maxed on rep. The most fun I get is the defense of lightspire(not the zone event; The quest with the mini games) and calling down air strikes on the boats in crimson isle. However I feel like the rest is just "kill this, click that, simon simon simon" when so much more could be done and has been demonstrated to be possible. I guess my first post and this goes more toward "ways to go forward with Wildstar", but part of me feels that helps with burn out too. I just feel as though Wildstar doesn't take as much advantage of mechanics it is capable of utilizing that it has expressed in one way or another to varying degrees. which would help the game as a whole. This may be a discussion worth having separately, but that's just me... | |} ---- It's just how people are, everyone is different. You enjoy plinking away, smelling the roses and logging in the BS with friends, and that's perfect for you. Others (most really) find enjoyment in knocking stuff out and progressing rapidly, and that's fine too. I know I personally have 0 interest in housing/rp, normally I enjoy PvP, but it's total crap in this game IMO. My fun has been in leveling all available classes and getting them raid ready/geared, and raiding on all of them. Now that I've done that, I'm bored (I've seen DS thru 1/9, but I really really don't like 40man, holding out for 20). Truth is for many people (past attunement) WS = 4 dungeons (with 90% of the runs being STL/KV) and 1 raid. Two if you get lucky with a raid slot/are in one of the few DS guilds. And that's why many got bored and left. Count yourself lucky that you're able to find RP and housing etc interesting. ---- As for what would help with burnout for many? More meaty content. Not one new useless daily zone after another. More dungeons, more raids, add open world events etc. Remove faction barriers to decrease Q times. Oh and fix PvP. | |} ---- This. The cure content, but content takes time. | |} ---- I love this idea. | |} ---- Definitely good idea. Although that is something that would take a very very long time to implement. It's something they should start on | |} ---- ---- ---- There are certainly vastly more players than developers, and I like the idea of being able to put spawns in your housing plot and turn them into "build it yourself" instances. Nice way to get people who like PvE into housing as well. I like this idea a lot. However, having seen the Architect system in CoX basically eradicate open-world play, player-created content of this type would need to be set up very carefully to avoid letting players design content for the express purpose of mowing down spawns to suck up loot faster than they could do by playing the game, and then giving them their own private "report-free" instance to do it in. I would caution that the point of that content should be to make some custom content that friends can enjoy, not as a means of obtaining plat or phat lewt. | |} ---- Waitwaitwait. RP? In a MMORPG? Madness! Madness, I say! ;) | |} ---- Or there's no reason that players couldn't add their own loot from their own stocks. We've heard of raid guilds running out of content, why not maintain and run each others' raids? Or, after defeating a boss, like in Warplots, you can chain it down and make a boss-in-a-box complete with its own scenery? That might work some wonders, if not give people some training time with real raid bosses. Spitballing ideas here. Housing is a very fragmenting force in Wildstar, for all its positives. It might be best if Carbine really works on that neighborhood system they mentioned earlier. If they go the route of player-built content (which also has a very strong positive tradition in video games, particularly in old FPS games that came with their own level editing engines and RTS games where player levels became de facto standards) it is very important that they implement some sort of system where, instead of the randomized method of visiting public plots now, we would see possible instances on the housing zone, possible raids, possible PVP arenas, etc. It's a good idea, though. However they do it, giving players the option of making their own content is the gift that keeps on giving. The best part is that, potentially, nobody would be happier than PVPers if they could design and build their own BGs. That might give Wildstar a vast edge over other MMORPG competition in the PVP department, given the housing system's comparatively advanced possibilities. | |} ---- -Become more alt friendly by adding alternate levelling paths. As in new areas (or revamped old areas, but that is tricky for a few reasons). -Place much more cosmetic and 'bragging' content in every Reputation vendor beside a few token decor items. That will make people want to cap the reputation instead of skipping it completely. -Something to do at level 50 that isn't group content, so that people who are waiting for their friends to log in have something to do. -A better casual use of Elder Gems. Right now, there's barely anything you can do with it unless you are doing veterans or raids. | |} ---- These are both coming in drop 4, so that'll be a welcome development. Veteran Shiphands are coming, and while they are unquestionably content for casuals, they are also repeatable level 50 solo content. And Elder Gems are about to become the currency of casuals, with Glory being the new currency required to obtain anything in the vertical progression following Veteran Adventures. | |} ---- I think just getting some placeable monster spawn options that generate a small amount of renown upon kills, rather than anything immediately abuseable like plat or gear, would be a nice first step. Let's not ask them to put in a huge number of things that just make the whole idea implausible and unlikely to happen any time soon.. | |} ---- I would love to see this as well! Perhaps create a strain dungeon that award Guardians of the Grove (Blighthaven) and Champions of the Defile rep.. Same with the unaligned factions: Big Game Hunters, Free Traders, Freebot, Lopp (omg a Lopp dungeon... main goal to find the big shinies :D) Protostar Games (drop 4) could also award Protostar rep. Never thought of this but this would be really amazing! This might also be a long shot but it'd be neat being able to create mini-dungeons or as some others suggested, arenas and possibly BGs in housing - I think having these features would even push me to get into housing! Other than that... Achievements really need to be fixed (especially the challenge achievements), have it so people can view your achievements, cause everyone secretly loves to feel bad-ass and brag ;) The bottom line is... Even if Carbine does implement 50,000 new features and rewards, players will still get burned out, period. Some people, including myself do have a pretty high burn out tolerance, so the more there is to do the more I will play, but we just need to know our own personal limits - Occasionally taking breaks playing other games or doing other things IRL will always healthy :) | |} ---- ---- Whoops, time to break out the emergency shinies. http://mayang.com/textures/Metal/images/Metal%20Objects/shiny_metal_180026.JPG many cool ideas, I like the "random level generator" which was doable in the old rogue like games (omega, angband, nethack...) and i thought it kinda sounded like the protostar games was getting closer to with random bosses. maybe a shiphand or sim. | |} ---- ---- ---- In all honesty, I think the loot table is probably the easiest thing to actually program. I'm sure that, if this becomes a way forward for Carbine, it's not coming in for months, and it's mostly going to be based around systems like how you can start the instance from outside the gate, how you can place and path enemies, and other ways to make the tools accessible to us, since we won't have the ability to directly code around problems. The biggest time sink is going to be making sure that the architecture is relatively idiot-proof, and that would make everything else trivialities in comparison. Granted, trivialities that can wait for later; the community can somewhat self organize after the basic elements are in place until they can later add some more interconnectivity to it. But yeah, it's not happening anytime soon. The upside is that, though it would take a long time to implement, it would pay dividends by essentially meaning we could make our own content instead of complaining that Carbine can't make enough fast enough (and never will). It's the gift that keeps on giving when your own community is doing some of the most time-consuming part of your job on its own. | |} ---- Are you REALLY maxed out? Or are you just done with the part of the game that you initially wanted to do? Most of the time when people say "I'm maxed out!" they mean that they're geared, have all their amps and ability points, and only log on to try to beat either Genetic Archives or Datascape. That's not even close to finishing all the content in the game. That's finishing one tiny portion of it. Do you ever PvP? How is your Rating? Regardless of rating, are you actually any good at PvP, could you afford to get better? How does your house look? Is it just a pile of trash or do you actually have an awesome crib? How does your costume look? Do you even have one? How many Datacubes do you have? How many TALES keys do you have? All of them? None? Have you finished all your Path missions? Have you maxed out your crafting? Have you gotten a Gold medal in all the dungeons and adventures? Have you won all the achievements in Genetic Archives? There's tons to do. You just have to have an open mind. I mean I've spend entire days just Lore hunting. Some of my friends spend entire days in housing. I can play PBGs for hours and not get bored. There's tons to do on non-raid days. | |} ---- ---- You're dominion, in makes a huge difference in Q times and enjoyment there. :) As exile I've often sat in Q for an hour+, just to get obliterated. Rinse repeat. 3 hours later I've done 2-3 matches and have almost nothing to show for it. That's why I stopped Qing, and I'm sure many others feel the same given the dismal state PvP. Housing isn't interesting for a lot of people (as amazing as it is), I spent probably a week early in the game making an amazing plot for my main, and I've not been interested since. Lore hunting too holds little appeal for many. Give us low Q time competitive PvP (same faction PvP, please, this game needs it), and burn out will slowly become less of an issue as the game matures and there's more raids and dungeons etc. Drop 3 should have been where we saw our first new dungeons/adventures/SH as far as pacing goes, and then another added every major/every other major drop. The fact that there's been nothing new since launch outside of a PvP map that is rarely seen, and more lazy dailies has been a factor in poor retention IMO. That and no content between 5 and 20. I think a 10-12 man raid would have helped a lot of smaller guilds stick, and given larger guilds something to do outside of GA/DS. | |} ---- With player-created content, I'd be far more concerned about making it abuse-proof over making it idiot-proof. The Architect system didn't pay enough attention to that and CoX suffered badly as a result of it because players could make content that was far more rewarding than actually playing the rest of the game. This type of new development really should be about customizable instancing for fun/practice/creativity, not farming and not phat lewt. | |} ---- I'm not talking about what they're more concerned about or not, just what's going to take the most time for them to do. Whether the dungeon creator can be made exploit proof without making it completely non-useful or not, it will absolutely take them longer to make sure it works in game without us breaking it. | |} ---- I can wait in PGB queues for hours and eventually give up. So apparently our experiences are quite different. Supposedly they're going to start trying to fix the queue problem in Drop 4 by more-or-less letting people in without respect to gear score. This will, of course, spawn a new set of problems entirely. But at least it won't simply be a huge amount of time spent waiting for a queue to pop to earn enough prestige for the bottom rung PvP gear in your tier. Hopefully when (if) they put a new matchmaker in place, they'll design it better than last time. | |} ---- "Useful"? Housing isn't intended to BE useful. It's intended to be fun. And there's an easy way to make sure it works in game without us breaking it, don't let people use it to farm phat lewt. | |} ---- 1. I have all 1800 gear and once was ranked that but the pvp boat has sailed and sunk to the bottom of the ocean for Wildstar. 2. My house is coming along nicely, I have a three story super fort built high as you can go. Inside the large granok house is looking good. There is only so much time you can spend in the housing before you ask yourself wtf am I doing, I think i have around 30 hours invested in mine. 3. I have 4/6 costumes completed and looking sharp. Have not found another sword that i like enough to start another costume around. 4. Dungeon Gold medals done on everything but SSM. Hard to get people to run this one for gold. Maybe it needs some fixing? 5. Crafting has been maxed for a very long time same with Path missions 6. Achievements is not content its a stupid chart that scores points for no reason or reward. This is some kind of BS that a developer came up with and called it content. My idea's are to help with burnout on content for the future. Carbine needs to look at what they have created and think how short of a life span that content really has. Most of its not filling the time between drops and thats not good. I play more hours then the above average person so yes, done with my first character. I have started a Spellslinger alt and now I am running myself through the daily zones\quests for an activity to do while not raiding. If you make a world thats on rails people will get burnout or have nothing to do. If you make a world to explore you have content that lasts longer. Next zone Carbine puts in the game should be as large as whitevale with more area's to just have fun killing mobs, take it a step further and remove the map like if you were in a cave underground. All class only armor for GA should have an epic Imbuement quests outside of the raid instance. This would give a raider something to work towards while not raiding. | |} ---- Besides....technically that's what expeditions fulfill this role already to a degree along with other renown giving plugs that can be used to get some gear. I feel that's fine. | |} ---- I don't think you understand what I'm saying. By "useful" I mean that it works. If you'd like to see something worse than a potential exploit, let a misplaced item breaking a clipping plane along an enemy path cause a corruption that crashes the entire housing zone. Keeping it from being exploitable is an issue of figuring out how the loot system works in the broad strokes. Making sure that giving us the tools to host player-made dungeons using the game's own resources actually works will, inevitably and assuredly, take more time. Breathe deep. | |} ---- From an RP perspective I would love being able to place hostile mobs even if there's no reward for killing them (but I certainly wouldn't say "no"). It would help make player created plotlines feel more active. | |} ---- A dev recently said there were plans for it. Won't be soon I guess but they're on it. I'll edit this post later if I find the relevant quote. | |} ----